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Author Topic: NEW amd drivers in 10.13  (Read 7865 times)
Spacedust
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2017, 03:34:47 PM »

Interesting, 10.13 beta 2 update 1 is now showing PCI Information when using non flashed gfx cards


At least it's not displaying the name correctly Wink
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brockbackups
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 06:06:08 PM »

Anyone know of the resistor that needs to be taken off of a RX 480 to get 5.0GT Link Speed?
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tomtomgps
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 10:23:44 PM »

The reason we know which resistor  to remove on the 7950,  7970 or 280X is because they are basically  the same cards and there is a 7950 Mac edition. By comparing the 7950 Mac edition  to the 7950 Pc edition someone found out which resistor to remove, simply because it was missing on the 7950 Mac Edition card.  TBH, the 7950 was designed that way but from what I understand nothing guarantees that the RX 480 has a resistor  that can be removed without damaging the card and that would provide 5.0GT/sec on a MAC, in fact it's actually very unlikely. Since  AMD APPLE authentic cards were more expensive than their PC counterparts,  AMD probably used that  resistor   as a cheap way to differentiate  a PC Card from an APPLE card. From what I understand they used the resistor trick twice, once for the HD4850 and once for the HD7950. I do not know if AMD used that resistor trick for the HD5870 too, but from what I have read simply flashing a 5870 does not allow 5GT/sec on a Mac Pro.

For some reason NVIDIA cards on boot camp need to have a Mac EFI [EDIT: no need for a Mac EFI but it needs a firmware mod] in order to provide 5.0GT/sec , but they do not require any hardware modification.  In reality there very likely is a way to remove the 2.5GT/sec limitation on the RX 480 by altering its bios/ Mac Pro firmware or Mac OS X driver.

Has anyone tried to boot the Mac Pro with linux and the open source  MESA drivers to see what type of connection speed between the GPU and the Mac Pro is possible ? If the connection is 5GT under linux then we would know that the limitation is purely a software one.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 05:11:36 PM by tomtomgps » Logged
Fl0r!an
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2017, 01:52:52 PM »

From my understanding it's a hard strap (AMD) or soft strap (Nvidia) to configure the PCI slots properly at boot time. It's possible to do the same from an EFI shell: http://forum.netkas.org/index.php?topic=13541.0

Rominator has found the necessary modification on lots of cards which never had an official "Mac Edition".
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nekton1
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2017, 11:30:31 PM »

Despite 10.13 beta 2 and later seeming to have support for the RX 460 (Baffin) in a host of AMD kexts, I cannot get my cMP 5,1 to boot with a Sapphire RX 460 in place (and nor could Rominator).
Before the Safe mode bug appeared in beta 4, it was possible to boot to an unaccelerated desktop in Safe mode but even that option is gone now.  Adding an old HD2500 XT as a helper card does not work and the cMP just shuts down.
When I try to boot with the RX 460, it gets to a whitish screen filled with snow of mixed RBY pixels which then cycles to a black screen with a white rectangle at top left and then sometimes to scrolling script down the left edge for a width of about 10 pixels and then the cycle repeats.
I have looked through the kexts for the correct board ID and it seems to be present and correct in the kexts.
What could be stopping this RX 460 in High Sierra? (It works fine in Sierra.)
Has Apple got a bug in the AMDX40xx.kexts or is this is a deliberate block on this card?
Any pointers for a fix other than buying an RX580 or Vega?
Thanks.
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Ciro82
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« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2017, 09:57:10 AM »

Sierra 10.12.6 - Lilu.kext + Whatevergreen.kext

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Hack: i7 3770 - M.B. ASRock Z75 Pro3 - RAM 16gb 1600 Crucial Ballistix - SSDs 2X 840 EVO 250gb + WD MyPassport 320gb Time Machine - GPU AMD RX 480 8gb - OS: OS X 10.11.5 - SMBios: iMac 13,2 - Bootloader: Clover UEFI
Rominator
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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2017, 01:36:06 AM »

Ciro82, is that a Hack?

If so, not surprising. The 2.5 lock is on the real Macs.

I was able to find this resistor on other AMD cards by using 2 tools

1. Voltmeter
2. Brain

I have no doubt that it can be found on Fury and Nova and whatever other AMD cards have come out.
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SMIKX
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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2017, 04:55:27 AM »

Rominator. That caught my attention too. Under heavy load would this link speed be dangerous to eg a 5,1's PCIe bus ?
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Mac Pro 4,1 upped to 5,1 Dual Quad Core 2.93ghz 17Gb 480Gb SSD TRIM enabled.
HIS HD 7950 3Gb 5.0 GT/s EFI on mDP to DVI + DVI to DVI.
10.9.5 - 10.12.6  - 10.6.8 - Win 7 not Bootcamp. 
AREA 2 port USB 3.1 & Inateck USB 3.0 4 port in OS X 10.9.5.
Squishy Tia
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« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2017, 01:50:27 PM »

Rominator. That caught my attention too. Under heavy load would this link speed be dangerous to eg a 5,1's PCIe bus ?

Link speed? No. The link speed ideally, is determined by PCIe generation. 2.5 GT/sec for PCIe 1.x, 5.0 GT/sec for PCIe 2.x, ~8 GT/sec for PCIe 3.x. That doesn't factor in bitrate for each of those transactions, just the link speed itself. So even though a GPU is capable of 8 GT/sec, it will report only 5 GT/sec in any Mac Pro from 2008 onwards as none of the cMPs utilize PCIe 3.0.

Now, power draw is another can of worms altogether. You need to stay within the Mac's capabilities unless you add in external power. That generally means that your TBP ceiliing will be approximately 225 watts for safe operation (this assumes you are using both an SATA to PCIe 8-pin connector and the motherboard's two six pin connectors, likely bridged into a 2x 6-pin to 1x 8-pin adapter. If your GPU is rated for more than 225 watts, it is potentially unsafe for use in a Mac Pro***.

*** Under load. Idle and mild loads usually won't trigger a shutdown into protection mode. However, as Rominator found out, it's a case by case basis as some Pascal GPUs worked great regardless of load, and some didn't even make it to load at all.
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Pval
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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2017, 10:53:19 PM »

The 6-pin connectors are 75watt each, the PCI bus another 75watt, so that's the 225watt you are talking about. A 5870 has a TDP of 188, 228 for the 2GB version. The 7950 has a TDP of 200watt. All supported in a standard Mac Pro.

Adding a SATA to 8-pin would raise your limit to 375watt, more then adequate for modern GPUs.

If you are concerned about pushing your PSU; my Mac Pro with a R9 290X (OC to 1100MHz), a W3690, 24GB, 2x PCIe M.2 SSDs, will draw just over 400watt max, measured at the wall, while playing games at 3440x1440@75Hz on max settings (Pixlas power mod). Idle it will sit around 90-140watt.

The PSU in a Mac Pro is rated at 980watt, the R9 290X has a TDP of 250watt (no OC, 1000MHz clock), the W3690 has a TDP of 130watt.
Yes, I removed all HDD and the DVD, never use the DVD anyway. For storage I use a NAS, or you could go eSATA.
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Squishy Tia
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« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2017, 10:37:14 AM »

Some GPUs don't even make use of the PCIe bus power except for booting up. Granted AMDs aren't among them (they're power hungry), but don't count on that PCIe bus power limit being able to be counted toward the cap - it isn't always in use. The 225w level is the only truly "safe" power ceiling for the Mac Pros. Getting above that is a YMMV and will undoubtedly be case by case depending on the GPU in use. You can get 300w with the two mobo connectors + SATA to 8-pin connector, but for some reason the Mac Pros are super finnicky with regard to power under load. Just ask Rominator about those quirks. He's seen power draw that defied logic many times. Usually the problematic suspect is the motherboard PCIe power lines since mobo traces just weren't meant to transfer that kind of power. Apple chose unwisely back then. Entrepreneuring users can of course find ways around that. Smiley

Still, if it's a first gen Polaris GPU, I'd stay the hell away from those even though it looks like Apple's AMD drivers contain AMD's PCIe bus draw limit "fix" in them.
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h9826790
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« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2017, 08:26:06 PM »

Some GPUs don't even make use of the PCIe bus power except for booting up. Granted AMDs aren't among them (they're power hungry), but don't count on that PCIe bus power limit being able to be counted toward the cap - it isn't always in use. The 225w level is the only truly "safe" power ceiling for the Mac Pros. Getting above that is a YMMV and will undoubtedly be case by case depending on the GPU in use. You can get 300w with the two mobo connectors + SATA to 8-pin connector, but for some reason the Mac Pros are super finnicky with regard to power under load. Just ask Rominator about those quirks. He's seen power draw that defied logic many times. Usually the problematic suspect is the motherboard PCIe power lines since mobo traces just weren't meant to transfer that kind of power. Apple chose unwisely back then. Entrepreneuring users can of course find ways around that. Smiley

Still, if it's a first gen Polaris GPU, I'd stay the hell away from those even though it looks like Apple's AMD drivers contain AMD's PCIe bus draw limit "fix" in them.

May I know which graphic card that has 6pins or even 8pins connectors but doesn't use PCIe slot power?

I know lots of card won't pull 75W from slot, may be just 25-35W even under stress, but really don't know a card that only pull power from slot during boot (but pulling zero under Furmark).

That 225W limit is definitely assuming we pull 75 from slot, 75 from 6pin A, and 75 from 6pin B.

Also, if we talking about 100% technically safe config, then we should not use SATA to 8pin, not even dual SATA to 8pin. A 8pin is rated up to 150W, a SATA port only rated up to ~55W, even dual SATA port's limit is nowhere near 150W.

In general, we don't really need to care the card's TDP, but only the config of the card. If it has a 6pin, then connect it to the mini 6pin. If it has a 8pin, connect it to 2x mini 6pin. If it has 6+8pin, then connect the 6pin to 2x SATA, and the 8pin to 2x mini 6pin.

If the card's TDP is 225, but only come with dual 6pin, then it is safe to run this card in a cMP with just the dual mini 6pin.

If the card's TDP is 375W, then connect it to 2x mini 6pin + 2x SATA is also safe. I can't see how a card that rated > 225W TDP is unsafe for cMP especially you mentioned about the SATA power.

Anyway, the mini 6pin on the cMP can practically deliver up to ~120W. 225W even zero power from slot is still OK for the cMP. And I really don't know any card that has 225W TDP, come with dual 6pin, but drawing zero power from slot, and natively draw way more than 75W from the 6pins.

But I totally agree that we should avoid the gen 1 RX480. I don't believe that MacOS's driver has the power draw fix. And I really don't want the card draw too much and kill the slot (or even the logic board).
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Squishy Tia
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« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2017, 07:05:33 PM »

I can't remember which one it was, but Rominator ran into a Pascale nVidia GPU that essentially used virtually no power off of the PCIe bus whatsoever. It all really depends on how the card is designed. And the newer and more power hungry cards can cause problems if any other cards are in the machine because that 75w PCIe bus power is for all slots combined. It would actually make more sense to design a GPU to sip power from the PCIe bus (primarily for boot functionality) and draw the remaining power needed from the PCIe power connections directly from the PSU. PC mobo manufacturers get away with being able to SLI power hungry cards by using a PEG connector (SATA power connector directly on the mobo itself) to give the PCIe bus extra juice for stability. Mac Pros don't have that luxury, so if your GPU sucks down 75w of power, good luck powering that RAID card too if it doesn't have external power connections.
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h9826790
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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2017, 10:12:26 PM »

I can't remember which one it was, but Rominator ran into a Pascale nVidia GPU that essentially used virtually no power off of the PCIe bus whatsoever. It all really depends on how the card is designed. And the newer and more power hungry cards can cause problems if any other cards are in the machine because that 75w PCIe bus power is for all slots combined. It would actually make more sense to design a GPU to sip power from the PCIe bus (primarily for boot functionality) and draw the remaining power needed from the PCIe power connections directly from the PSU. PC mobo manufacturers get away with being able to SLI power hungry cards by using a PEG connector (SATA power connector directly on the mobo itself) to give the PCIe bus extra juice for stability. Mac Pros don't have that luxury, so if your GPU sucks down 75w of power, good luck powering that RAID card too if it doesn't have external power connections.

It's 75W per slot, 300W in total for all 4 slots.


* Screen Shot 2017-08-15 at 05.09.50.jpg (215.8 KB, 1241x1447 - viewed 182 times.)
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Rominator
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 09:03:37 PM »

Plugged a Vega 56 in, saw the 8.0 GT/s link speed in PCI section. Must be cosmetic, just like when Nvidia cards say "2.5" but are really at 5.0.

Vega seemed OK until I threw Uningine at it. At Extreme HD it had issues that didn't show up in Medium settings.
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