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Author Topic: Apple bones us yet again - hasn't played TB3 by the rules  (Read 27323 times)
Rominator
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« on: November 03, 2016, 10:03:09 PM »

*Apple has made design decisions which prevent all currently available Thunderbolt 3 peripherals from being compatible with the 2016 MacBook Pros. We’ll have more information on this soon.*

http://plugable.com/2016/10/27/the-new-2016-macbook-pros-plugables-thunderbolt-3-and-usb-c-products/

So, TB3 supposed to be this simple, translucent protocol so stuff *just works*.

Apple has decided otherwise. Explains why a Razor Core plugged into a 2016 MBP says *unsupported*

Jerks
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Arch Stanton
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 10:46:40 PM »

Damn... really makes me wonder what they're waiting for to enable eGPU.  HP Z series looking better every day...
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ClassicMartini
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 02:05:16 AM »

New kext mod?
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Rominator
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2016, 02:28:38 AM »

Update 11/3/16: The version of OS X on the new MacBook Pros (late 2016) will not work with existing Certified Thunderbolt 3 docks and adapters (released prior to November 2016). These existing devices use Intel’s Thunderbolt 3 chipset (Alpine Ridge) in combination with the first generation of TI USB-C chipset (TPS65982). Apple requires the 2nd generation TPS65983 chipset for peripherals to be compatible. Certification of solutions across different device types is still in-progress for this 2nd generation chipset. From the Plugable product line, our dual display graphics adapters for DisplayPort and HDMI (TBT3-DP2X and TBT3-HDMI2X) are affected and are disabled by OS X on the new MacBooks. So we offer these products as Windows-only Thunderbolt 3 devices until a future hardware update. Our Thunderbolt 3 cables do not require this chip, and therefore are compatible.

We’ve also made the difficult decision to postpone our TBT3-UD1 Docking Station to update to the TPS65983 chipset and re-certify to make this docking station MacBook-compatible. Our Flagship TBT3-UDV dock with Power Delivery/Charging was already planned to use the next generation controller chip from TI, and will be compatible with the 2016 Thunderbolt 3 MacBooks.

We’ll continue to post updates with new Thunderbolt™ 3 product and release information as it becomes available.

http://plugable.com/thunderbolt-3/

I went digging through the Apple TB kexts, didn't see an easy fix.

But MAYBE somewhere is a place where doing a switcher would turn this on.

In the "frustrating" category, while my 2016 MBP says the Razer is "unsupported", I fired up the windows installer from 7/2015 and lo and behold, the USB ports on the Razer fired up. So, basic Windows installer from more than a year ago ready to go with Razer, latest MacOs...rules it out.

I say we find a way to turn this on.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 02:38:06 AM by Rominator » Logged

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Rominator
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 10:19:40 AM »

http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macbook-pros-may-not-be-compatible-with-some-early-thunderbolt-3-devices-updated.2012381/

A mess.
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DarthnVader
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 11:13:53 AM »

Dave,

Does the TPS65982 have a PCI Device ID?

Quote
Yes, your customer can update FW from System Controller, commonly referred to as an EC.

Yes, both I2C ports can be used to update FW.

The I2C1 master should write to CMD1 and DATA1 registers only, while the I2C2 master should write to CMD2 and DATA2 only. This will avoid any potential conflicts if both I2C ports are used.

You can create FW using the web-based Config Tool to modify and download raw FW and update via I2C.

If you require source code for the System Controller, currently we only support Python scripts for the Aardvark I2C Host to demonstrate the FW update over I2C capabilities of the TPS65982. We do not provide or support System Controller source code.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps65982.pdf

http://www.ti.com/tool/tps6598x-config

http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/tps65982-evm/eval-board-tps65982-usb-type-c/dp/2499248

Quote
The TPS65982 device is a stand-alone USB Type-C and power delivery (PD) controller providing cable- plug and orientation detection at the USB Type-C connector. Upon cable detection, the TPS65982 device communicates on the CC wire using the USB PD protocol. After successful USB PD negotiation is complete, the TPS65982 enables the appropriate power path and configures alternate mode settings for internal and (optional) external multiplexers.
The mixed-signal front end on the CC pins advertises default, 1.5 A or 3 A for USB Type-C power sources, detects a plug event and determines the Type-C cable orientation, and autonomously negotiates USB PD contracts using bi-phase marked coding (BMC) and the physical layer (PHY) protocol.
The port power switch provides up to 3 A downstream at 5 V for legacy and Type-C USB power. An additional bidirectional switch path provides USB PD power up to 3 A at a maximum of 20 V as either a source (host), sink (device), or source-sink.
The TPS65982 is also an upstream-facing port (UFP), downstream-facing port (DFP), or dual-role port for data. The port data multiplexer passes data to or from the top or bottom D+/D– signal pair at the port for USB 2.0 HS; additionally, the Sideband-Use (SBU) signal pair is used for Alternate Modes. The power management circuitry supports dead battery or no-battery operation using VBUS as a primary power supply when 3.3 V is not available.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 11:57:14 AM by DarthnVader » Logged
netkas
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 08:24:11 PM »

Rominator

does it work in efi ?

if you connect flashed videocard to mbp via tb3 dock. will you have bootscreen?
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Rominator
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2016, 05:14:46 AM »

Inside Razor it keeps rebooting, like 8 times, then starts.

Haven't tried latest though.
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netkas
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2016, 07:27:39 PM »

so, no bootscreen on egpu?

if so, then we can't do much for nmbp if tb3 dock is blocked on efi level
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Rominator
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2016, 08:40:04 PM »

The Razer is dead to the world on 2016 MBP during boot.

So my guess is Apple (being douchebags) disable/turn off during EFI.

I think it is possible that OS could be fixed to allow it after boot.

Someone could do MBP community a big favor and allow the unsupported Ti chip to work.

Right now, there is NOBODY running eGPU on TB3 in OS X.

This should shut up the Appologists claiming it isn't Apple's fault.

Intel, who OWNS the TB spec and certifies it, uses the chip Apple calls unsupported in their own TB products:

http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macbook-pros-may-not-be-compatible-with-some-early-thunderbolt-3-devices-updated.2012381/page-20#post-23871341
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 09:32:28 PM by Rominator » Logged

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Rominator
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« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 06:53:32 PM »

Got an email from them, apparently has same issue.

Bet those clowns at Bizon are sweating bullets. They're taking pre-orders on their repackaged Akitio claiming that it works in OSX in TB3 mode.

There may be a way to make it work but people who repackaged Goalie's repackaged hack aren't likely to figure it out.

Should be good for a laugh.
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Synchro03andsoon
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2016, 02:50:26 PM »

Hi Rominator

It's a bummer that the Razer Core does not work with the new Mac's. But maybe it work's with older Thunderbolt 1/2 Mac's.

Could you try the Razer Core via Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter ? It is is bidirectional.

Quote:  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207266

Using the adapter with your Mac that has Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 ports

Your Mac must be running macOS Sierra to work with the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter.

You can use the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter to connect your Mac with Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 ports to these devices:
Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) self-powered devices, such as Thunderbolt 3 displays and Thunderbolt 3 self-powered hard drives
Mac computers that have Thunderbolt 3

The Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter doesn't support connections to these devices:
Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) bus-powered devices
USB-C devices, displays, and adapters that don't have Thunderbolt




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Rominator
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2016, 07:41:09 AM »

way ahead of you.

ordered it when I ordered the MBP 2016.

And on nMP 2013 in Windows it works great, as long as you have the previous boot rom, per Netkas' recent posts.

Now, let me say, it shows up as running at PCIE 3.0 x4, but CUDA-Z says otherwise.

Running Timespy now to quantify.

OK, nMP 2013 runs Timespy scoring 5000 using Razor Core and Apple TB3-TB2, got 4800 using Netstor on pure TB2.

Next, OS X tests
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 08:07:16 AM by Rominator » Logged

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Synchro03andsoon
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2016, 02:12:04 AM »

Thanks! I am curious to see the results with OS X.
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Rominator
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2016, 10:34:30 AM »

Didn't need to change the title.

nMP in OSX the Razer and Apple TB3-Tb2 don't work.

Looks like it's given trouble there too by our friends at Apple.
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