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Author Topic: Booting the 64-bit kernel on the 2006/2007 Mac Pro  (Read 1234435 times)
Graeme43
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« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2012, 03:53:01 PM »

Can someone set me up with a 10.8 installer that doesn't have the Mac model check or tell me how to disable it? Seems to refuse to install saying mac not supported

Apple invited me into the Mountain Lion seed and I don't have a Mac that can officially run it! Sucks! Both MP 1,1 and black MacBook C2D unsupported
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 04:00:13 PM by Graeme43 » Logged

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sonymac
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« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2012, 04:43:33 PM »

Without access to a supported machine, it may be difficult. If you had access to a later
Model Mac Pro, you could probably just swap out the drives.

I'm not sure how to fool the installer but I think it may have something to do with the plist file similar to the article below.

http://osxdaily.com/2011/04/08/hack-mac-os-x-lion-for-core-duo-core-solo-mac/
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Rominator
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« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2012, 07:29:22 PM »

I installed onto my 4,1/5,1 and then put the drive into my 1,1.

It just showed the circle with a slash across it for a few seconds then rebooted

going to take more than a drive swap
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jeanlain
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« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2012, 08:12:45 PM »

Some hacks can already boot 10.8.
The same boot loader should work on old Mac Pros.
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Squishy Tia
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« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2012, 09:08:43 AM »

I installed onto my 4,1/5,1 and then put the drive into my 1,1.

It just showed the circle with a slash across it for a few seconds then rebooted

going to take more than a drive swap

And this is the straw that broke the camel's back. I think I'm done with the Mac after my Mac Pro gives up the ghost. I just can't tolerate this cat and mouse game Apple seems to love making customers play with regard to OS and computer support. Hell, they actively abandoned all development effort for the original Mac Pros (1,1/2,1) only six months after their release, and left they to die a slow, painful death.

That I have to toil with partitions and a bootloader to run an OS that would run perfectly fine on my Mac Pro 1,1 otherwise, is a clear indication that Apple is not worth my money anymore. The Mac Pros are enterprise level computers. We paid through the nose for them, only to be shafted by Apple again and again and again. They could have updated the EFI on the first two revisions of the Mac Pro, since they had the spec finalized, but did nothing. And now the arbitrary limitations strike again. Enough is enough.

I never thought I'd say this, but I jump through less hoops to get what I want out of my OS on the Windows side than on the OS X side at this point. It's been a wild ride and a blast, but it's time to move on. Apple cares only about iOS and whatever it can milk out of the dying Mac Pro market. I want no more to do with it.

I was considering whether or not to get a 2010 Mac Pro (mainly because they can still run Snow Leopard and don't have to run Lion, so I wouldn't be stuck with features I can't turn off and despise to no end in Lion), but this pretty much seals the deal. I've been an Apple supporter and fan for twenty eight years. I'm sad to see it all go by the wayside, but I as a customer am worth jack all to them, so why should I continue to feed what bites my hand?

Kudos to those of you that got 64-bit Kernels running on the 1,1/2,1 Mac Pros. You are to be commended. Alas, the trouble it takes to get it working isn't worth my time, and it certainly isn't worth the eventual troubleshooting I'll have to do later down the road because I bypassed an arbitrary roadblock from Apple to get where I wanted to go.
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sonymac
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« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2012, 11:49:50 PM »

Dude, as a MP 1,1 owner, I am just as sad as the next guy to know that ML isn't officially supported, but seriously...

After you are done whining, which you have every right to do, I beg to differ on your opinion of Apples business decision to cut Mac Pro 1,1 support.

Apple, Dell, Sony, basically every single PC manufacturer cuts support after their systems hit a certain "vintage" that is measured in years, not performance. This is standard industry practice. It just so happens that Apple also makes the OS as well. I've had IBm and Dell pro workstations that are the same way (no driver support for later OSs. No BIOS support after 3 years.

As much as I love to claim I bought my Mac Pro to do enterprisy things, the truth is I didn't. I bought it because I of the expandability and hackability. I love the Mac Pro community (specifically, the 1.1 community. Who also seem the most vocal). I'm proud and glad that the Mac Pro has had such a good run. When I bought it for $3000, it was light years ahead of anything else out there. Also Apple raised the base price of the Mac Pro in later years so I felt the bang to bucks ratio of the 1.1 was improved.

The Mac Pro is as capable as its ever been and I'm thrilled to see such an active community work to keep it current and relevant.

But let's not kid ourselves. Xserve, that's an enterprise system. The Mac pro is far from enterprise. I'd even argue the Mac mini is more enterprise ready than the Mac pro is. Most enterprise setups I know don't upgrade every time a new OS comes out. Just because Apple would rather not hire out office space (which they lack) nor assign staff to do QA and technicians to support (which they have a shortage of), doesn't make them a bad company. It shows where their priorities are and have been for the past 15 years. If you didn't know that by now, you really don't know Apple. Celebrate what use you got out of your Mac Pro. Hope for more years to come. If you are seriously doubting your next Apple purchase, then you and a pretty lousy ROI in the first place and that's not Apples problem.

Change: it's scary but yeah, the time has come where I can do everything with a MacBook Air and a thunderbolt drive enclosure and display (I have a PC for gaming). But thats just my line of work.




I installed onto my 4,1/5,1 and then put the drive into my 1,1.

It just showed the circle with a slash across it for a few seconds then rebooted

going to take more than a drive swap

And this is the straw that broke the camel's back. I think I'm done with the Mac after my Mac Pro gives up the ghost. I just can't tolerate this cat and mouse game Apple seems to love making customers play with regard to OS and computer support. Hell, they actively abandoned all development effort for the original Mac Pros (1,1/2,1) only six months after their release, and left they to die a slow, painful death.

That I have to toil with partitions and a bootloader to run an OS that would run perfectly fine on my Mac Pro 1,1 otherwise, is a clear indication that Apple is not worth my money anymore. The Mac Pros are enterprise level computers. We paid through the nose for them, only to be shafted by Apple again and again and again. They could have updated the EFI on the first two revisions of the Mac Pro, since they had the spec finalized, but did nothing. And now the arbitrary limitations strike again. Enough is enough.

I never thought I'd say this, but I jump through less hoops to get what I want out of my OS on the Windows side than on the OS X side at this point. It's been a wild ride and a blast, but it's time to move on. Apple cares only about iOS and whatever it can milk out of the dying Mac Pro market. I want no more to do with it.

I was considering whether or not to get a 2010 Mac Pro (mainly because they can still run Snow Leopard and don't have to run Lion, so I wouldn't be stuck with features I can't turn off and despise to no end in Lion), but this pretty much seals the deal. I've been an Apple supporter and fan for twenty eight years. I'm sad to see it all go by the wayside, but I as a customer am worth jack all to them, so why should I continue to feed what bites my hand?

Kudos to those of you that got 64-bit Kernels running on the 1,1/2,1 Mac Pros. You are to be commended. Alas, the trouble it takes to get it working isn't worth my time, and it certainly isn't worth the eventual troubleshooting I'll have to do later down the road because I bypassed an arbitrary roadblock from Apple to get where I wanted to go.
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Squishy Tia
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« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2012, 06:06:24 AM »

I don't mind change. Hell, I remember back in the end of the OS 9 days where I thought I'd never switch to OS X, but I did. Change is usually good. What miffed me was Apple had pretty much (almost but not quite officially) dropped the 1,1 Mac Pro (and 2,1 as well) from any serious support a mere six months after launch of the 2,1 model, which was just a 1,1 Mac Pro with corrected errata in the microcode handling the CPUs. The industry standard for at least basic support (not warranty support or extended troubleshooting) has been five year for enterprise classified products, and as much as you might not like hearing so, the Mac Pro was classified as an enterprise product in Apple's lineup right along side the XServe.

I would have been completely satisfied had they provided even the three year running support, but they didn't. They simply didn't block it from OS installation up until now (yes, they actively block the 1,1/2,1 Mac Pros from even instaling MLion even though they can run it just fine). And it is an arbitary block, as it has been quite clearly shown that even the first gen Mac Pros can run 64-bit OS X just fine and the only thing stopping them from doing so is Apple's bootloader.

The problem with Apple now is that they're trying to sandbox the user in every conceivable way to retain utter control (as seen in Lion with Autosave, Versions, and Resumes not being controllable by the user, and in the iOSification of the once awesomesauce Mac OS). Much of the iOS merging I could deal with if I had at least some control over it, but I have virtually no control over it. More and more control is taken away from the user, and that's where it's rubbing me the wrong way.

I had always said that the day I have go to the Hackintosh route to get the most out of my machine is the day Apple doesn't deserve my money anymore (since if I'm doing the hacky thing, I may as well save on hardware anyway and use equivalant hacky parts). Having to use Chameleon to have any chance of booting MLiion to me is going down that route. I am fine with MLion not being "supported" on the hardware - I wouldn't ask Apple for help if something went wrong since I'm savvy enough to troubleshoot on my own. But being blocked in such a way that even a drive swap from a working Mac Pro model (in relation to MLion) is an entirely different scenario, considering the Mac Pro 1,1/2,1 can run the OS just fine outside of that little roadblock.

Edit: I fell asleep in my chair writing this (yes, I can fall asleep when I'm thinking sometimes if I'm tired enough) and upgraded my router to the Netgear N900 (god this thing's fast) during this post and came across this tutorial on installing MLion on the Mac Pro 1,1/2,1. Hopefully it'll work. I have a spare 40 GB SF1200 SSD just waiting for some data to be put on it, so I'll give it a try. It's a lot of work for what should be plug and play installation (thanks Apple), all due to that arbitrary EFI32 lockout, but if it works it'll potentially breathe some new life into my Mac Pro. And as an aside, Apple could have easily accomodated the EFI32 with its bootloader, as the kernel starts up in 32-bit mode at the start either way and must be shunted through the bootloader to activate its 64-bit mode (it does so on ALL Macs).

10.7 is Apple's Vista (good intentions, very very badly implemented and obscenely buggy). 10.8 looks to be Apple's Windows 7, a much improved under the hood version of Lion. It would just be nice if Apple would give all Mac Pro owners legitimate access to it without jumping through hoops, given the way the kernel loads at bootup anyway.

I'm not reluctant to try new things. If I can get MLion installed on my Mac Pro and it's a good enough improvement over Lion (whose three main attraction features were terribly intrusive), I may reconsider future purchases (which will require MLion at a minimum to even boot). I suppose my point here is this: Apple has used up the goodwill left in its "loyal" user base. Now it's time for it to pony up and not constantly leave us lurching and fumbling in the dark to make things really shine (or even work). I'm not all that hopeful, but Apple has a golden opportunity to give all Mac Pro owners one last fling with a great OS before we have no choice but to upgrade (and you KNOW this is about raking in cash for them via hardware sales - something that while I may not like, I do completely understand from a business standpoint - what's the use of "stagnant" customers that don't upgrade?).

Anywho, I've said my piece. I'll try out the tutorial, since I'm a dev and have access to the installer (I usually take out the InstallESD.dmg file anyway and toss the rest away since I just restore that .dmg file to a flash drive anyway and 16 GB flash drives are like $20 now, which is the main reason I really didn't lose much sleep over lack of a DVD to install from).

And now I'm off to put my new router through its paces with my Epic 4G. Mmm.....speedy wireless.

Dude, as a MP 1,1 owner, I am just as sad as the next guy to know that ML isn't officially supported, but seriously...

After you are done whining, which you have every right to do, I beg to differ on your opinion of Apples business decision to cut Mac Pro 1,1 support.

Apple, Dell, Sony, basically every single PC manufacturer cuts support after their systems hit a certain "vintage" that is measured in years, not performance. This is standard industry practice. It just so happens that Apple also makes the OS as well. I've had IBm and Dell pro workstations that are the same way (no driver support for later OSs. No BIOS support after 3 years.

As much as I love to claim I bought my Mac Pro to do enterprisy things, the truth is I didn't. I bought it because I of the expandability and hackability. I love the Mac Pro community (specifically, the 1.1 community. Who also seem the most vocal). I'm proud and glad that the Mac Pro has had such a good run. When I bought it for $3000, it was light years ahead of anything else out there. Also Apple raised the base price of the Mac Pro in later years so I felt the bang to bucks ratio of the 1.1 was improved.

The Mac Pro is as capable as its ever been and I'm thrilled to see such an active community work to keep it current and relevant.

But let's not kid ourselves. Xserve, that's an enterprise system. The Mac pro is far from enterprise. I'd even argue the Mac mini is more enterprise ready than the Mac pro is. Most enterprise setups I know don't upgrade every time a new OS comes out. Just because Apple would rather not hire out office space (which they lack) nor assign staff to do QA and technicians to support (which they have a shortage of), doesn't make them a bad company. It shows where their priorities are and have been for the past 15 years. If you didn't know that by now, you really don't know Apple. Celebrate what use you got out of your Mac Pro. Hope for more years to come. If you are seriously doubting your next Apple purchase, then you and a pretty lousy ROI in the first place and that's not Apples problem.

Change: it's scary but yeah, the time has come where I can do everything with a MacBook Air and a thunderbolt drive enclosure and display (I have a PC for gaming). But thats just my line of work.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 07:14:01 AM by Squishy Tia » Logged
hyram
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« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2012, 04:23:57 PM »

.... the 2,1 model, which was just a 1,1 Mac Pro with corrected errata in the microcode handling the CPUs....

Sorry... nit picking time.

This is just not true. Below is the header info extracted for the microcode for the 2 differnet flavors of mp11 and the mp21. As can be seen moving from mp11 to mp21 basically just adds support for the 06F7 processors. Who knows what the deal was with the 06FB's in the mp11.005b firmware.

mp11.005c.b08
Proc Sig    Revision    Date            Checksum       Proc Flags
06F0        5             08.18.2005    0x6D5B2CC7    0x00000004
06F1        17           10.10.2005    0xA28ACD13    0x00000027
06F4        38           03.12.2006    0xDA8E97D1    0x000000F5
06F5        51           05.01.2006    0x6A962F1F    0x00000004
06F6        198          03.07.2007    0xB1BFF974    0x00000004
            
            
mp11.005d.b00
Proc Sig    Revision    Date            Checksum       Proc Flags
06F0        5             08.18.2005    0x6D5B2CC7    0x00000004
06F1        17           10.10.2005    0xA28ACD13    0x00000027
06F4        38           03.12.2006    0xDA8E97D1    0x000000F5
06F5        51           05.01.2006    0x6A962F1F    0x00000004
06F6        198          03.07.2007    0xB1BFF974    0x00000004
06FB        180          03.14.2007    0xAF7C100F    0x00000004
            
            
mp21.007f.b06
Proc Sig    Revision    Date            Checksum       Proc Flags
06F0        5             08.18.2005    0x6D5B2CC7    0x00000004
06F1        17           10.10.2005    0xA28ACD13    0x00000027
06F4        38           03.12.2006    0xDA8E97D1    0x000000F5
06F5        51           05.01.2006    0x6A962F1F    0x00000004
06F6        198          03.07.2007    0xB1BFF974    0x00000004
06F7        102         03.08.2007    0xFEA82C38    0x00000040


The real changes in moving from mp11 to mp21 are in the actual firmware code as there are changes to about 45 different files. However, these changes are not really all that significate. I doubt that anyone could quantify any difference in performance or functionality betweeen mp11 and mp21. To me the mp21 firmware looks to be a baby step in Apple's progression from EFI32 to EFI64... and a very small baby step at that.

Here's a question that I haven't been able to answer but is of interest to me... what was the frist Mac to have EFI64? I'm guessing it was either an XServe or one ot the iMac's but I don't know which one. If anyone can answer, please give me a heads-up.
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electropura718
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« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2012, 06:48:09 PM »

Has anyone gotten the Chameleon boot to work yet with Mountain Lion?

If you use the known method to boot the 32 bit kernel first (there are other threads about this), then re-enter the terminal command to re-bless the Chameleon boot partition, does it work or will we need a newer version of chameleon?
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Squishy Tia
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« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2012, 06:00:15 PM »

Hyram,

The first Mac to have EFI64 was this one, the Core 2 Duo MacBook. Yeah, the lowly Macbook beat out the Mac Pro, XServe, and MacBook Pro to the punch with EFI64.
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superfula
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« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2012, 09:39:38 PM »

The MacBook was simply the first machine they released after the EFI64 spec was ratified.

The irrational emotional outburst based upon an early beta is humorous.  

The Mac Pro 1,1 has been supported for 5 years, which is quite a feat considering the changes Apple has gone through (moving to Intel, to 64bit, etc). Apple very well could have killed it with Snow Leopard.  Frankly I'm thankful for the 5 years my 1,1 has given me and look forward to several more years.  Apple isn't requiring anyone to upgrade to ML.  Lion isn't required either, but why someone wouldn't want to use it is a mystery to most.  Apple is in it to make money; older machines are outdated; the sun will come up tomorrow...there's no reason to complain as it's inevitable.  What is a sufficient amount of time for you?  6 years?  7?  10?  If so, feel free to jump over to the backward-looking legacy worship that has dragged down Windows for so long, and now the chickens have come home to roost for Windows 8 with its jarring attempt to cut off some of its older technologies.

Let's keep this on topic and keep the emotional "whoa is me" crap out.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 09:43:17 PM by superfula » Logged
Graeme43
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« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2012, 04:03:19 PM »

Might have some luck with 10.8 server??

I found seed notes (they are legit) for 10.8 server and trimmed out the rest

1. February 16, 2012 11:13PM UTC

OS X Mountain Lion Seed
Server Release Notes


Minimum System Requirements

You can install this version of Server on any Macintosh server or desktop computer with:
• An Intel Core 2 Duo, i5, i7 or Xeon processor
• At least 2GB of RAM
• At least 20GB of available disk space
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Squishy Tia
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« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2012, 12:58:02 PM »

The MacBook was simply the first machine they released after the EFI64 spec was ratified.

Hence it being the "first mac with EFI64".

[/quote]The irrational emotional outburst based upon an early beta is humorous.  

The Mac Pro 1,1 has been supported for 5 years, which is quite a feat considering the changes Apple has gone through (moving to Intel, to 64bit, etc). Apple very well could have killed it with Snow Leopard.  Frankly I'm thankful for the 5 years my 1,1 has given me and look forward to several more years.  Apple isn't requiring anyone to upgrade to ML.  Lion isn't required either, but why someone wouldn't want to use it is a mystery to most.  Apple is in it to make money; older machines are outdated; the sun will come up tomorrow...there's no reason to complain as it's inevitable.  What is a sufficient amount of time for you?  6 years?  7?  10?  If so, feel free to jump over to the backward-looking legacy worship that has dragged down Windows for so long, and now the chickens have come home to roost for Windows 8 with its jarring attempt to cut off some of its older technologies.

Let's keep this on topic and keep the emotional "whoa is me" crap out.
[/quote]

I'd say you have just as much of a problem as you say I do, so um, pot, meet kettle. Either way, the tidbit about the MLion Server seed notes (I overlooked that because I don't use the server versions) gives at least some hope. If the server can run on any Mac Pro (at least according to the seed notes, subject to change of course), then the OS proper should be able to as well. It'd sort of be a support nightmare for Apple to have the server work on hardware that the OS won't even install on. Smiley

And for the record, Apple all but officially dropped support for the Mac Pro 1,1/2,1 about six months after the 2,1 came out (their efforts were focused squarely on EFI64 by then). The one part of the Mac Pro first gen that is a true annoyance I can't (and won't) blame on Apple: the PCIe variable link widths. I've seen several RAID cards (not the least of which was the impressive, but ultimately useless in a Mac Pro 1,1/2,1) Areca 1880i-12x. Cost me $1k to get, and the blasted thing couldn't be set to anything other than x1 link width unless the graphics card was in slot 2 and the Areca card in slot 1, even if you had the system set to x1, x1, x8, x16. The x8, x1, x1, x16 setup yielded an x1 link to the Areca card. Thankfully my NewerTech SATA3 SAS RAID controller card (really just a rebadged HPT 2721 with passthrough mode added) sees an x8 link width. Can't boot from it, but it's zippy.

The one thing I'm curious about is why some people say you can't flash the EFI on the Mac Pro 1,1 but instead have to put in a new chip - The Mac Pro's boot ROM is the EFI portion of the system, and can most definitely be flashed. I know it won't happen, but I'd cream my pants eleventy billion times over if Apple would release even an "unsupported, beta, test it at your own risk and die if you ever try to ask us for support on it" boot ROM that was EFI64. I can dream, right? Tongue

As to why I'm not using Lion, I have three words for you: Autosave, Resumes, and Versions. You can't disable them (without utterly crippling the system and/or running into them again after each software update), making them exceedingly intrusive. Versions I could sort of live with, though I'd prefer not to if I could get away with it. Resumes just needs to DIAF. Having literally hundreds of images open in preview, which I use a lot, due to bugs with Resumes even after having shut it off, gets old fast. The bug was in the Lion beta, and it's still in Lion as of 10.7.3. But Autosave is a nonstarter for me. Without a way to turn it off globally, it just gets too intrusive and causes me no end to annoyance. I shouldn't have to mark everything as Stationery Pad just to be able to open it without Autosave rearing its ugly head on the original document no matter what. That's just horrible design right there.

As to why I am looking forward to MLion, iOS features aside (which I couldn't give a rat's ass about as I loathe iOS in its entirety), it's got enough other features and under the hood changes to have me seriously considering it even though it's almost certainly still got the unkillable crud from Lion in it. It ain't often I praise an OS like that, but MLion looks like awesomesauce compared with the forced loss of control Lion represents (hence why it's Apple's equivalant to Vista).

About the only thing that Apple may end up regretting is having the app store be the sole means of software updates. It's already proven to be a PITA for power users and anybody that wants any control over their OS. Having it dig its heels in that much more only causes more problems. But hey, iOS is the future, at least as far as Apple is concerned so app store it is (not like I can avoid it anyway - my dev account requires its use for half of the stuff now).

Anywho, I was going to try the booting into 64-bit mode via Chameleon, but I realized that my spare SSD is still in the IcyDock quad drive backplane in my optical bay, and the RAID card I have isn't bootable, so I'll have to dig the SSD out of there and reconnect it to the built in SAS bays to try that. But that can wait - I am going to have some fun with my new Vertex 3 120 GB SSD in my PS3. Sure it ain't SATA3 in there, but good lord anything beats the load times for Soul Calibur 4 (5 sucks donkey nuts without a real Kilik or Seung Mina in there) and MLB 10: The Show off the original HD.

I'll get to trying Chameleon sometime...when things settle down a bit here. Smiley
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electropura718
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« Reply #73 on: February 29, 2012, 06:24:39 AM »

Well, I gave it a shot.  Installed Mountain Lion using the method now widely known (on a clone of my Mac HD).  Runs fine on my Mac Pro 2,1 (formerly a 1,1) using the 32 bit kernel.  Attempted to boot the 64 bit kernel using the Chameleon (which works beautifully in Lion).  Unfortunately, I get stuck in an endless loop...after Chameleon does its thing, I get the grey Apple logo screen for a moment, then...boom...the system reboots itself...this happens over and over.

Back running Lion and the 64 bit kernel via Chameleon.

Not sure whats going on.  Probably a Chameleon issue, but perhaps not.

Graphics card is an ATI 4870 Mac edition.  May try again tomorrow with an Nvidia GeForce 470 (PC version...no EFI...which works great with the Chameleon boot on Lion).

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hyram
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« Reply #74 on: February 29, 2012, 07:24:46 PM »

Hyram,

The first Mac to have EFI64 was this one, the Core 2 Duo MacBook. Yeah, the lowly Macbook beat out the Mac Pro, XServe, and MacBook Pro to the punch with EFI64.

Good link... not sure how I missed that. Thanks!


... after the EFI64 spec was ratified.

Hmmmm.... There is no "EFI64 spec"... unless you're referring to UEFI, in which case it can be implemented anyway you like.... both EFI32 and EFI64 are written and run in 32bit mode, the switch over to 64bit doesn't happen till the handoff to the OS. As for apple's implementation of EFI, it's really from EFI1.1. They have picked up a few aspects of UEFI but not everything. Even in it's current state it is certainly a more "pure" implementation than any of the other bios vendors which tend to add some of their legacy stuff and definitely don't follow the volume structure explicitly.
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