netkas.org forum
November 23, 2017, 10:02:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Information for registering users http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,2246.0.html
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: The 4K report, Mac Pro with 4K displays and Mac GPUs  (Read 15025 times)
Rominator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2170



« on: December 09, 2013, 08:06:49 AM »

I discovered a 4K Asus Display in my place and am going to help share info.

This is where things are going, like it or not, so we may as well find out what we can.

"Will my Radeon XXX/GTX XXX card do 4K?"

It is first necessary to understand that "Do 4K" has a couple different meanings.

A GTX570 can use it's DisplayPort and run a 4K display in OSX or Windows. Unfortunately, it is limited to 30Hz. This means that the screen refreshes 30 times in a second. Sounds like alot but you have to realize that, well, it isn't. Ideally you would have 60 fps or even 120HZ. (yes, in this context "Hz" and "FPS" are same thing)

The real drag is that GTX5xx cards with DP can in fact run OSX at 4K @ 30Hz but.......Boot screen in useless. It fires up in solid grey, but no disks ever appear. It is likely that they are being drawn somewhere not mapped to the screen. I will try to fix this but if it isn't in the EFI...there will be no fix unless there is an easy to see definition of VESA modes in BIOS.

GTX6xx and GTX7xx cards (Kepler) show boot screen properly AND can run display at full 4K. This also applies to AMD cards 7950/70. In OSX as of today this is still limited to 30Hz while in Windows it is possible to use 60Hz. Windows has the advantage of a few years of "EyeFinity" (AMD). Basically, to run multiple displays at once they link them together. 4K needs same thing. But DP 1.2 allows you to daisy chain on same cable. So in Windows, they send 2 display signals down the cable as if they were for 2 separate monitors and then the 4K display connects them together. The issue at heart is that until now displays have been mapped to a max pixel clock of 165 Mhz. By some really tedious math you can find that this basically allows a 2560x1600 display to run at 60Hz. So 2005 era Apple 30" has been cutting edge since 2005. We are finally crossing that border and there is still no easy way to do it.

Another issue is that a 32" display at 4K makes all of the desktop icons TINY and text very clear but also TINY. I find myself leaning in to use it effectively. Windows has an easy fix whereby you make everything 200% normal size. HOWEVER, even in 8.1 most games don't deal with this well. I have tried modding their info to ignore the setting but they frequently crash anyway.

It is unlikely that DVI ports will ever run 4K, except in pairs. The Asus PQ-321 I have allows linking 2 HDMI plugs together (can also be DVI). You put display in "Dual Mode" and it combines the HDMI signals into 1 desktop. Again, only in Windows.

It is my feeling that VERY soon we will have some update to OSX or AMD drivers that somehow allows 60Hz 4K. nMP will be exposed as an even bigger joke if not. Right now I can use 4K at 60 Hz via a lowly GT640 in Windows but in OSX not even a Titan can do this.



Logged

Before asking a question, check your "Personal Settings" and be sure that you have "Brain Services" set to "On".
netkas
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 01:07:48 PM »

Time to get some new osx builds

« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 01:10:13 PM by netkas » Logged
chromafile
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 10:10:18 PM »

So, who's gonna get nMP and try it out with a 4K monitor Grin
Logged
mysticalos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 611


« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 10:22:47 PM »

And 10.9.2 seeded today. coincidence? time to dig in?
Logged
malaxor
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 63



« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2013, 01:57:01 AM »

Notice that Apple MacPro6,1 EFI firmware was also posted at Apple: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1714
Anything interesting there?
Logged
Ziw
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 08:40:23 AM »

quoting some finds:

Quote
apparently the new Mac Pro ships with his own build of 10.9 which presumably supports 4k output.
have a look at the short video clip in this article
http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/12/19/5227466/the-new-mac-pro-2013-hands-on
at ~1:07 the system information dialog displays build number 13A4023
Logged
netkas
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2013, 10:07:04 AM »

well. Obiously it's some 10.9 version ( 13A4023), not 10.9.1, which is 13B42

So, probably 10.9.1 should be installable on new Mac Pro, maybe it has special version, like retina mbp. Actually here it is http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1707?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

But 10.9.2 beta should support 4K then.
Logged
mysticalos
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 611


« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2013, 05:30:53 PM »

I'm just sickened that nvidia drivers are STILL 310. What is up with nvidia. Are they mad apple put dual AMDs in mac pro or something? There is plenty of nvidia hardware that can benefit from speed improvements of later nvidia drivers. This is furthest I've seen mac be behind windows driver. :\

Drivers in 10.9.2 are

AMD
1.20.7 (13432)

nvidia
 8.24.9 (310.40.25f01)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 05:39:35 PM by mysticalos » Logged
blacksheep
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2013, 06:01:10 PM »

well. Obiously it's some 10.9 version ( 13A4023), not 10.9.1, which is 13B42

So, probably 10.9.1 should be installable on new Mac Pro, maybe it has special version, like retina mbp. Actually here it is http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1707?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

But 10.9.2 beta should support 4K then.

Perhaps only Dxx will get 4k 60 Hz support?
10.9.2 is 13C32 and no new AMD drivers there. IOGraphicsFamily, IOPCIFamily and IONDRVSupport kexts are updated and 7970 isn't recognized as FirePro D700 anymore. Now uses "regular" Tahiti XT Prototype engine. OpenCL has been updated as well (compare OpenCL version dates on Luxmark screenshots). 7970 performance in Luxmark decreased about 10%.

Edit: examined AMD drivers again, and turned out that kexts modification date was the same between 10.9.1 and 10.9.2 but AMD7000Controller inside the 10.9.2 kext is newer and much bigger. So there was an update.



* Screen Shot 2013-12-20 at 17.30.49.png (157.68 KB, 918x564 - viewed 369 times.)

* Screen-Shot-2013-12-20-at-17.30.01.jpg (236.01 KB, 1024x792 - viewed 356 times.)

* Screen-Shot-2013-12-19-at-15.39.41.jpg (235.83 KB, 1026x792 - viewed 341 times.)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 11:46:47 PM by blacksheep » Logged
vidkidd
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 30


« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2013, 11:28:15 PM »

Running with a Seiki 39" display...

AMD 7950
  • Switching between back to the 7950, it became evident that I was running on a non-flashed firmware.   I flashed it to a modified version for a Gigabyte 7950.
  • HDMI is more crippled on the EFI based firmware, outputting 1920x2160 while 3840x2160 is selected. This does not occur on the original firmware.
  • With a flashed ROM created for the Gigabyte 7950, 3840x2160 can only be displayed using: HDMI cable to HDMI->DVI dongle adapter from ATI -> DVI->DisplayPort Active Adapter -> DisplayPort Adapter to Mini Display Port Adapter.   Crazy as it sounds, it works and all resolutions and timings are available. (24Hz, 25Hz, 30Hz).
  • DVI or HDMI will only push a 1920ix2160 image.   OS X thinks it's sending 3840H but the display is only receiving a 1920ix2160 signal.
  • Mavericks has an annoying issue with the 7950 that continually spins the PCI fan up and down with an annoying drone.   Running a 3D app that pushes the GPU for 20 seconds fixes this problem.
  • Changing between 2160P and 1080P HiDPI or is instant with no delay.

nvidia 680GTX
  • HDMI maxes out at 3840x2160 @ 25Hz.
  • Adding a 3840x2160 custom resolution in SwitchResX, would not work at 30Hz.
  • Seiki HDMI ->HDMI cable -> HDMI /DVI dongle from ATI -> DVI-> DisplayPort adapter -> 680GTX display port unlocks all resolutions (see below)
  • After changing resolutions in the display control panel, 2160P is no longer available at 30Hz.  User must restart to regain access to 3840x2160.


Running at 4k
  • I keep switching back and forth between 3840x2160 and 1080P HiDPI depending on the task at hand.   With Xcode I find myself needing the full resolution display.   With content consumption and office related tasks, 1080P HiDPI is is nice
  • Resuming from sleep takes a bit more time due to an extended wake up time for the Seiki.
  • While I've worked with multiple displays for years, a single Seiki 39" can work effectively.
  • 30Hz... well it's 30Hz.  Definitely workable for iOS/OS X development.


* openGL.png (154.04 KB, 823x564 - viewed 347 times.)

* 7950resolutions.jpg (241.33 KB, 778x1178 - viewed 402 times.)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 08:10:01 AM by vidkidd » Logged
netkas
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2013, 11:38:57 AM »

What os version it was ?
Logged
vidkidd
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 30


« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 07:49:05 PM »

What os version it was ?

10.9.2(13C32)  I was on 10.9.1 throughout it's cycle.   1920x2160 behavior didn't show up until 10.9.2.
Logged
netkas
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2013, 07:59:09 PM »

So, maybe it can now split 4k stream into two 1920x2160 streams to get 4k@60hz, but seiki display isnt compatible with it.

Looking forward for rom to get back from holidays and try uhd display over displayport
Logged
vidkidd
Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 30


« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 07:56:10 AM »

A couple more notes..

Reverting back to 10.9.1 and non-modded Gigabyte 7950 firmware,
2009 Mac Pro -> Seiki 30Hz 3840x2160 display

  • The HDMI port is fully functional with a 4k display.   With a modified EFI version, HDMI will not detect Seiki 39" monitor.
  • DVI -> HDMI still wants to deliver 1920x2160.  Appears to be an interlaced format.  Correct image, but it's missing 1/2 the width.
  • MDP Active Adapter to HDMI delivers 3840x2160.  
  • All ports on the card are functional
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 06:20:05 PM by vidkidd » Logged
netkas
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2013, 01:55:14 PM »

Mentioning refresh rate would be a good thing.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!